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What to do With Dead Teams or: Necromancy for the Basement Dweller
My thoughts on how Spring should be ran and why I feel the fetus should return. If you have hot opinions on this shout them somewhere. I've probably failed at the basic math I've done so pretend it's whatever the numbers should be.




If reading makes you break out into hives there is a tl;dr at the bottom.




This article will list three things regarding the inclusion of dead teams into the 2015 Spring Babby Cup, these articles listed in the order I will address them are as follows: what the goal of the inclusion of dead teams is and by extension what the expectations placed on dead teams should be, how it will be decided which dead teams get revived, and how the exports should be put together for these teams. I am not listing every possible options but the options I feel should be seriously considered, if you have an idea PLEASE TELL SOMEONE, any decent idea should be put out there and built upon.  
There are two realities that I feel must be faced in regards to the Babby Cups.


1) New teams will be incorporated at some point.
*We cannot keep our doors closed simply because it is how things are, there will be and you might argue that there already are boards that are ready to be represented. The Cup is meant to be an Even that encapsulates all of 4chan, not just the parts that were here first.


The goal of the dead teams is fairly straight forward, they exist to allow eight groups of five whereas without them the groups would be uneven and it has been decided that having an even forty is the preferable path. The more difficult question is about what is expected of the dead teams that will compete, what is the expected strength of the autopilot teams and how should the strength of them be approached. As demonstrated by /e/ over the past year a well set up team can destroy even on auto-pilot and in general "no manager abuse" has been seen before where a team with no instructions have made a great showing. But I do not believe the dead teams should be placed in a favourable position for several reasons. The first reason is the difficulty in making the team strong, to do so would require a person willing to put great effort into making a team succeed that they most likely do not want to, given that that person would likely be needed to be in a position of trust and that the people in a position of trust are busy working on Spring attempting to give dead teams strong tactics. A second reason is that the fact that these teams are dead suggests that there is less enthusiasm about seeing them compete than the "live" teams, while it would be a novelty because of the circumstances to see a dead team advance I believe it would be generally preferable to see a team that is being actively supported by fans advance. This statement could cause scorn from people who might be correct arguing about how teams with no manager might still have supporters who want the team to succeed but for whatever reason are not stepping up. Trying to determine the size of a teams fanbase I believe is an almost impossible metric and since I also believe that all dead teams should be treated the same for the sake of fairness I suggest that a wide brush be waved over the teams and the goal for the dead teams should be that they are entertaining canon fodder, they should not advance but a team slipping up against them ought to be a very possible possibility.  
2) The current model for streaming the babbies is taxing as fuck on the streamers and it is proving increasingly difficult for them to secure the time needed to stream.
*4 weekends is a lot of time for any number of people to coordinate and attempt to make themselves free for, if there is a way to make the babbies easier to organize in respect to the streamers without making the experience shit it should be considered.




This asks how the teams' exports should be made, and there are six parts of the export that need to be determined: formation, sliders (or the PES 15 equivalent), heights, which players are medals, cards, and how the team should act on game day. I suggest looking at the only recent case of a dead team competing in any regard which is /rs07g/'s entry into the third VGL. I asked Cosa Nostra who put together the export for this team the process that he went through. Before that it should be addressed that Cosa Nostra has always insisted that the VGL was a fun event and not serious business so while his method might not be the least rigged way possible it should be looked at. His method when I asked was that he kept the formation and sliders of the team /rs07g/ was set to override and simply changed the names. I believe this to be a fair metric that addresses two of the six nodes to be given solutions. For medal status I suggest to simply look at the team to be overwritten and make the two  starting players with the best stat total the team's gold players then make the next two highest the silvers. This will lead to unusual tactics for certain but it is a fair way to do construct the teams as it ignores any bias by the person making the exports and could very well lead to hilarious results as a byproduct though not all will appreciate that. For team cards I suggest they not be given any cards and the cards on the existing players be left as along as they comply with Cup regulations, if they do not cards should be randomly removed until they have a legal number of cards. A team not competing with cards would put them at a significant disadvantage but as demonstrated by [s4s] in Captain Planet's Test Cup V15 it is possible for a team with no cards to put on a good show and produce entertaining games even if they lost all of their matches. As for how the teams should be treated day of the matches I believe that subbing for best condition and substituting out the three most tired players at sixty-five minutes. These tactics are similar to what a manager would leave for their team if they were not present and allows the team to utilize all 23 players on the roster without unnecessary rigging taking place.


Because of these two factors I feel it imperative that we return to a 32 team babby with a fetus of varying size which I feel will solve both of these problems.


The most difficult part of putting together the exports fairly in my opinion is deciding on the heights for the players. This becomes especially difficult given that there is both an option for a height cap or for better heights but worsened stats. Since the "default" choice for heights is the 189cm cap option I suggest that the dead teams be given that option as trying to balance the two possibilities would not be worth trying the effort needed. Then once that has been decided how will it be decided which players will be what height. I suggest that the same logic be applied to height as I suggested be applied to the medal status of the player, with the tallest X default players being put into the tallest bracket then continue this process for all the players. Teams that are put together by the teams' manager have an additional 25cm of height to spread around but I do not believe it should be given to the dead teams and putting them at the bottom of every height bracket is the impartial way to do it.


1) having a fetus of varying size will allow for both new teams to be added but also a way to ease out a number of teams that are not active without affecting the overall structure of the main cups.


Now the question that people actually care about, who gets to compete? The easiest way to decide is to put the names in the hat on the day of the draw and go from there. This method is fair but I believe it should be seen as the method for if there are no other ideas. That said the only way I believe a team's entry should be considered above the fate given by the hat is if it is possible to prove recent board interest. What passes as adequate board interest should be up to the 4CCC but things like threads on the board that attracted a response, and polls run on the board are examples of interest. It should not be anons in /4ccg/ saying they are fans as that is not a good metric for determining the interest of the boards. If interest can be proven from more dead teams than there are spots then it is up to the committee to decide which has the best case, if one can prove interest then put the remaining spot to the hat. however it should be noted that evidence of interest will most likely be heavily scrutinized for various reasons so I believe that the situation should be viewed as: hat until proven not hat.  
2) while in some cases there are more games and days as a result of the fetus compared to the megababby because the fetus is less important (fuck you you know I'm right) it can be treated with much more flexibility in terms of scheduling (eg: middle of the week or at a later hour). Additionally due to lesser importance the fetus is a good way to test out potential streamers in an arena where even less matters than usual.




And now for the tl;dr you all scrolled down to read instead of the above text
The fetus will operate with competitors looking for 8 spots in the babby, with the bottom babby teams and those below being placed into the next fetus as well as any team that does not have a manager when the teams for the fetus are being decided.




1) The dead teams should be "entertaining cannon fodder"
Now some numbers to show what the fetus will likely look like, the number of teams is meant to be flexible so as to grow and shrink depending on the number of teams that should compete in it. To note a 32 team babby saves 32 matches over a megababby so the +- is referring to the number of games overall with that in mind.


2) /rs07g/ should be viewed as the precedent for dead teams competing


3) Keep the default formation and sliders for the teams that are to be overwritten
Groups of 3 can do double headers to make each group of 3 require 6 matches instead of 3 for less randomness which is an idea I'd heavily consider so I'm going to count them as such.


4) The two starting outfielders with the highest stat total are the golds, next two highest are the silvers
'''8 team or below fetus'''
*No fetus needed


5) No cards should be added to the players and if they have cards by default that exceed regulations remove them at random until they comply with the rules
'''9 team fetus'''
*Will instead be a single group of 4 comprising of the four lowest ranked teams
*1 group of 4
*Top 3 advance
*6 games (net -26)
*1 day


6) For tactics the teams should sub for best condition then at 65 minutes sub out the three most tired players
'''10 team fetus'''
*Same as the 9 team fetus but only 2 teams advance
*1 group of 4
*Top 2 advance
*6 games (net -26)
*1 day


7) The heights should be the max 189 option with the same logic for determining medal status be given here (X tallest players in tallest bracket, next Y tallest players in next bracket, etc.)
'''11 team fetus'''
*2 groups of 4, 1 group of 3
*Top 3 of the four team groups advance, top 2 of three team group advances
*18 games (net -14)
*3 days (6 each), or 2 days (9 each)


8) Dead teams do not get to have the bonus 25cm for height teams normally have
'''12 team fetus'''
*3 groups of 4
*Top 2 of each group and top 2 third place teams advance
*18 games (net -14)
*3 days (6 each), or 2 days (9 each)
'''OR'''
*4 groups of 3
*Top 2 advance in each group
*24 games (net -8)
*3 day fetus (8 matches each day)


9) The teams that get to compete should be drawn from a hat unless someone can prove RECENT board interest in which case they will be granted entry
'''13 team fetus'''
*3 groups of 3, 1 group of 4
*Top 2 of each group advance
*24 games (net -8)
*3 day fetus (8 matches each day)
 
'''14 team fetus'''
*2 groups of 3, 2 groups of 4
*Top 2 of each group advance
*24 games (net -8)
*3 day fetus (8 matches each day)
 
'''15 team fetus'''
*1 group of 3, 3 groups of 4
*Top 2 of each group advance
*24 games (net -8)
*3 day fetus (8 matches each day)
'''OR'''
*5 groups of 3
*Top team of each group advances, top 3 second place teams advance
*30 games (net -2)
*4 day fetus (7, 7, 8, 8)
 
'''16 team fetus''' (fetus will likely be between 16 and 20 teams)
*4 groups of 4
*Top 2 advance from each group
*24 games (net -8)
*3 day fetus (8 matches each day)
 
'''17 team fetus'''
*3 groups of 4, 1 group of 5
*Top 2 advance from each group
*28 games (net -4)
*4 day fetus (7 matches each day)
 
'''18 team fetus'''
*2 groups of 4, 2 groups of 5
*Top 2 advance from each group
*32 games (net 0)
*4 day fetus (8 matches each day)
 
'''19 team fetus'''
*1 group of 4, 3 groups of 5
*Top 2 advance from each group
*36 games (net +4)
*4 days (9 each), or 5 days (7, 7, 7, 7, 8)
 
'''20 team fetus'''
*4 groups of 5
*Top 2 advance from each group
*40 games (net +8)
*5 days (8 each)
'''OR'''
*5 groups of 4
*Top team in each group advances, top 3 second place teams advance
*30 games (net -2)
*4 days (7, 7, 8, 8)
 
 
 
I consider 20 teams the likely largest size for a fetus for at least the longest while. There are currently 60 teams of which 44 will be eligible for any babby so 20 will be eligible for the fetus. Even if new teams are to be added with this format the number of fetus teams will likely not exceed 20 given that there are a number of dead teams that are unlikely to be revived.
 
 
 
The way a fetus will be organized will be as such. Note that I feel the timeline for the prep for both the babby and the fetus should be accelerated so that the whole thing doesn't drag on but that can be thought about after.
 
 
Signups: every fetus team, any team without a manager, or any team that missed the elite cup due to a failed signup will sign up. If a team that missed an elite sign up and was placed down with the fetus teams can find someone to sign them up then they'll be safe from the fetus and will be placed at the top of pot 3. Failure for any team to sign up will result in the team being removed no exception.
 
Exports: gib exports, if it's fucked then send the team home early, the AATF is a thing so there's no excuse for being retarded.
 
Draw: exactly what you'd expect.
 
Event: the fetus itself will be either one or two weeks depending on both the number of teams and the schedule of the host(s).
 
 
Immediately concluding the end of the fetus the signups will open for the babby cup and we start a whole new mess.
 
 
 
 
 
This is a small update on my thoughts on the fetus structure. We're almost at the third fetus using this system so this is about as good a time as any to write up how I feel about how it is working, what's changed since then, and what's to be done going forward.
 
 
Overall I am pleased with the new system and feel it has acomplished the main goal I wanted to achieve, which was to make a cup system that was versatile and workable with any number of teams. There have been a few surprises. The biggest one is that the number of teams that are alive has dimished. I feel the reasons for this are the tougher rules for reviving teams, the desire to avoid shame of being a fetus shitter, and an overall trend towards more teams having councils.
 
 
From the structure I laid out we've deviated from the rules I set fairly consistently and every change has been for the better.
*dragging a team down to the fetus for fucking up constantly
*adding a playoff for the extra slot from the above happening because why not
*and now we're faced with the possibility of making the fetus smaller and sparing some teams for the sake of a better format
We've been playing it fairly fast and loose with how we've handled the Fetus and there hasn't been any real complaints over not sticking to the plan 100% and I'm grateful for that. I don't take silence as complete approval but I think people are more fine with flipping the script at the fetus level than anywhere else because of the lack of dignity given to its competitors.
 
 
Anyway that's all I've really got to say, we're going to keep using the above rules and we're also going to ignore them whenever convenient to do so. I expect autopilots to throw another wrench into the windshield of this poorly oiled clown car but that comes later.

Latest revision as of 07:06, 18 April 2017

My thoughts on how Spring should be ran and why I feel the fetus should return. If you have hot opinions on this shout them somewhere. I've probably failed at the basic math I've done so pretend it's whatever the numbers should be.



There are two realities that I feel must be faced in regards to the Babby Cups.

1) New teams will be incorporated at some point.

  • We cannot keep our doors closed simply because it is how things are, there will be and you might argue that there already are boards that are ready to be represented. The Cup is meant to be an Even that encapsulates all of 4chan, not just the parts that were here first.

2) The current model for streaming the babbies is taxing as fuck on the streamers and it is proving increasingly difficult for them to secure the time needed to stream.

  • 4 weekends is a lot of time for any number of people to coordinate and attempt to make themselves free for, if there is a way to make the babbies easier to organize in respect to the streamers without making the experience shit it should be considered.


Because of these two factors I feel it imperative that we return to a 32 team babby with a fetus of varying size which I feel will solve both of these problems.


1) having a fetus of varying size will allow for both new teams to be added but also a way to ease out a number of teams that are not active without affecting the overall structure of the main cups.

2) while in some cases there are more games and days as a result of the fetus compared to the megababby because the fetus is less important (fuck you you know I'm right) it can be treated with much more flexibility in terms of scheduling (eg: middle of the week or at a later hour). Additionally due to lesser importance the fetus is a good way to test out potential streamers in an arena where even less matters than usual.


The fetus will operate with competitors looking for 8 spots in the babby, with the bottom babby teams and those below being placed into the next fetus as well as any team that does not have a manager when the teams for the fetus are being decided.


Now some numbers to show what the fetus will likely look like, the number of teams is meant to be flexible so as to grow and shrink depending on the number of teams that should compete in it. To note a 32 team babby saves 32 matches over a megababby so the +- is referring to the number of games overall with that in mind.


Groups of 3 can do double headers to make each group of 3 require 6 matches instead of 3 for less randomness which is an idea I'd heavily consider so I'm going to count them as such.

8 team or below fetus

  • No fetus needed

9 team fetus

  • Will instead be a single group of 4 comprising of the four lowest ranked teams
  • 1 group of 4
  • Top 3 advance
  • 6 games (net -26)
  • 1 day

10 team fetus

  • Same as the 9 team fetus but only 2 teams advance
  • 1 group of 4
  • Top 2 advance
  • 6 games (net -26)
  • 1 day

11 team fetus

  • 2 groups of 4, 1 group of 3
  • Top 3 of the four team groups advance, top 2 of three team group advances
  • 18 games (net -14)
  • 3 days (6 each), or 2 days (9 each)

12 team fetus

  • 3 groups of 4
  • Top 2 of each group and top 2 third place teams advance
  • 18 games (net -14)
  • 3 days (6 each), or 2 days (9 each)

OR

  • 4 groups of 3
  • Top 2 advance in each group
  • 24 games (net -8)
  • 3 day fetus (8 matches each day)

13 team fetus

  • 3 groups of 3, 1 group of 4
  • Top 2 of each group advance
  • 24 games (net -8)
  • 3 day fetus (8 matches each day)

14 team fetus

  • 2 groups of 3, 2 groups of 4
  • Top 2 of each group advance
  • 24 games (net -8)
  • 3 day fetus (8 matches each day)

15 team fetus

  • 1 group of 3, 3 groups of 4
  • Top 2 of each group advance
  • 24 games (net -8)
  • 3 day fetus (8 matches each day)

OR

  • 5 groups of 3
  • Top team of each group advances, top 3 second place teams advance
  • 30 games (net -2)
  • 4 day fetus (7, 7, 8, 8)

16 team fetus (fetus will likely be between 16 and 20 teams)

  • 4 groups of 4
  • Top 2 advance from each group
  • 24 games (net -8)
  • 3 day fetus (8 matches each day)

17 team fetus

  • 3 groups of 4, 1 group of 5
  • Top 2 advance from each group
  • 28 games (net -4)
  • 4 day fetus (7 matches each day)

18 team fetus

  • 2 groups of 4, 2 groups of 5
  • Top 2 advance from each group
  • 32 games (net 0)
  • 4 day fetus (8 matches each day)

19 team fetus

  • 1 group of 4, 3 groups of 5
  • Top 2 advance from each group
  • 36 games (net +4)
  • 4 days (9 each), or 5 days (7, 7, 7, 7, 8)

20 team fetus

  • 4 groups of 5
  • Top 2 advance from each group
  • 40 games (net +8)
  • 5 days (8 each)

OR

  • 5 groups of 4
  • Top team in each group advances, top 3 second place teams advance
  • 30 games (net -2)
  • 4 days (7, 7, 8, 8)


I consider 20 teams the likely largest size for a fetus for at least the longest while. There are currently 60 teams of which 44 will be eligible for any babby so 20 will be eligible for the fetus. Even if new teams are to be added with this format the number of fetus teams will likely not exceed 20 given that there are a number of dead teams that are unlikely to be revived.


The way a fetus will be organized will be as such. Note that I feel the timeline for the prep for both the babby and the fetus should be accelerated so that the whole thing doesn't drag on but that can be thought about after.


Signups: every fetus team, any team without a manager, or any team that missed the elite cup due to a failed signup will sign up. If a team that missed an elite sign up and was placed down with the fetus teams can find someone to sign them up then they'll be safe from the fetus and will be placed at the top of pot 3. Failure for any team to sign up will result in the team being removed no exception.

Exports: gib exports, if it's fucked then send the team home early, the AATF is a thing so there's no excuse for being retarded.

Draw: exactly what you'd expect.

Event: the fetus itself will be either one or two weeks depending on both the number of teams and the schedule of the host(s).


Immediately concluding the end of the fetus the signups will open for the babby cup and we start a whole new mess.



This is a small update on my thoughts on the fetus structure. We're almost at the third fetus using this system so this is about as good a time as any to write up how I feel about how it is working, what's changed since then, and what's to be done going forward.


Overall I am pleased with the new system and feel it has acomplished the main goal I wanted to achieve, which was to make a cup system that was versatile and workable with any number of teams. There have been a few surprises. The biggest one is that the number of teams that are alive has dimished. I feel the reasons for this are the tougher rules for reviving teams, the desire to avoid shame of being a fetus shitter, and an overall trend towards more teams having councils.


From the structure I laid out we've deviated from the rules I set fairly consistently and every change has been for the better.

  • dragging a team down to the fetus for fucking up constantly
  • adding a playoff for the extra slot from the above happening because why not
  • and now we're faced with the possibility of making the fetus smaller and sparing some teams for the sake of a better format

We've been playing it fairly fast and loose with how we've handled the Fetus and there hasn't been any real complaints over not sticking to the plan 100% and I'm grateful for that. I don't take silence as complete approval but I think people are more fine with flipping the script at the fetus level than anywhere else because of the lack of dignity given to its competitors.


Anyway that's all I've really got to say, we're going to keep using the above rules and we're also going to ignore them whenever convenient to do so. I expect autopilots to throw another wrench into the windshield of this poorly oiled clown car but that comes later.

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