The logo competition for the 2025 4chan Summer Cup is now taking submissions.
The deadline is July 7th, 23:59 UTC. Logos will be placed in this gallery to facilitate discussion. This will be followed by a polling period to determine which logo will be used.

Please send all submissions to Potatotron. You must supply a high-res PNG file (5000x5000 limit) and the original multi-layer source file.

Cloverleaf logo: .png .svg

Cloverball logo: .ai .png .svg

Difference between revisions of "/@/"

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Line 173: Line 173:
For the full match history since 2015: {{main|/@/ Match History}}
For the full match history since 2015: {{main|/@/ Match History}}


===2024===
===Recent form===
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" |Stage
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" |Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" |Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" |Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" |Scorers
|-bgcolor='ffcccc'
| style="background:#5f62b7" rowspan="7" align=center|[[File:MobabowlEOS.png|100px|link=MobaBowl_2024]]<br>[[MobaBowl_2024|<span style="color:#17202a ">'''MobaBowl 2024'''</span>]]
|-bgcolor='ffcccc'
| style="background:#5f62b7" rowspan="1" align=center|'''Winner's bracket'''
| align=center|January 7, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|gbpen}}
| align=center| 0-0 L <br>(1-2 P.K.s)
|
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| style="background:#5f62b7" rowspan="5" align=center|'''Loser's bracket'''
| align=center|January 12, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|gbfg}}
| align=center| 4-0 W
| {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|41||73||79}} <br> {{tt|Bouncy Bouncy|You like it, like it Bouncy! I feel so Bouncy Bouncy!}} {{goal|82}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center|January 13, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|fgog}}
| align=center| 4-3 W
| {{tt|72|Look how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|2}} <br> {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|27||86}} <br> {{tt|UGH|Ugh Mayuzumi Fuyuko.. ughhhh }} {{goal|43}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center|January 13, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|pmmm}}
| align=center| 3-1 W
| {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|4}} <br> {{tt|Bouncy Bouncy|You like it, like it Bouncy! I feel so Bouncy Bouncy!}} {{goal|24}}<br>{{tt|72|Look how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|34}}
|-bgcolor="ccffcc"
| align=center| January 14, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|uma}}
| align=center| 3-3 W <br> (4-3 P.K.)
| {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|17||20||72}}
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| align=center| January 14, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|gig}}
| align=center| 2-0 L
|
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Edition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Scorers
|-bgcolor='FFFFFF'
| style="background:#aaa0db" rowspan="4" align=center|[[File:Vgleague.png|100px|link=/vg/_League_22_Friendlies]]<br>[[/vg/_League_22_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a ">'''/vg/ League 22'''</span>]]
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| style="background:#aaa0db"" rowspan="3" align=center|[[/vg/_League_22_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a">'''Friendlies'''</span>]]
| align=center| March 3, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|assg}}
| align=center| 4-1 W
| {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|3||32}}<br>{{tt|Fat Bitch|Look at that smug fat bitch, she is so round! }} {{goal|27}}<br>{{tt|72|Look how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|89}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center| March 8, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|akg}}
| align=center|1-1 W <br> (4-3 P.K.s)
| {{tt|72|Look how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|90+2}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center| March 9, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|dbg}}
| align=center| 4-2 W
| {{tt|UGH|Ugh...Fuyu etc}} {{goal|8||33||87}}<br>{{tt|Bouncy Bouncy|You like it, like it Bouncy! I feel so Bouncy Bouncy!}} {{goal|59}}
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Stage
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Scorers
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| style="background:#BE87C4" rowspan="4" align=center|[[File:Vgleague.png|100px|link=/vg/_League_22]]<br>[[/vg/_League_22|<span style="color:#FDFDFD">'''/vg/ League 22''' </span>]]
|-bgcolor="ffffcc"
| style="background:#BE87C4" rowspan="3" align=center|[[/vg/_League_22#Group_C|<span style="color:#FDFDFD">'''Group Stage'''<br>'''Group C'''</span>]]
| align=center|June 7, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|tf2g}}
| align=center|2-2 D
|{{tt|Bouncy Bouncy|You like it, like it Bouncy! I feel so Bouncy Bouncy!}} {{goal|29}}<br>{{tt|Dookie|Shimamura Uzuki, ganbarimasu!}} {{goal|39}}
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| align=center|June 16, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|nepgen}}
| align=center|1-3 L
|{{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|9}}
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| align=center|June 22, 2024
| align=center|{{team away|gbfg}}
| align=center|1-2 L
|{{tt|72|Look at how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|37|}}
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Edition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Scorers
|-bgcolor='FFFFFF'
| style="background:#aaa0db" rowspan="3" align=center|[[File:Vgleague.png|50px|link=/vg/_League_23_Friendlies]]<br>[[/vg/_League_23_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a ">'''/vg/ League 23'''</span>]]
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| style="background:#aaa0db"" rowspan="2" align=center|[[/vg/_League_23_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a">'''Friendlies'''</span>]]
| align=center| September 28, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|vgt}}
| align=center| 1-3 L
| {{tt|72|Look how flat she is! God damn, that's hot}} {{goal|12}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center| October 5, 2024
| align=center| {{team away|2hug}}
| align=center|1-0 W <br>
| {{tt|のヮの|The pride of Japan}} {{goal|90+0}} <br>
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%  
{| class="wikitable" width=75%  
|-
|-
Line 331: Line 212:
| align=center|0-1 L
| align=center|0-1 L
|
|
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=20%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=10%| Edition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=23%| Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=10%| Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=25%| Scorers
|-bgcolor='FFFFFF'
| style="background:#aaa0db" rowspan="4" align=center|[[File:Vgleague.png|100px|link=/vg/_League_24_Friendlies]]<br>[[/vg/_League_24_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a ">'''/vg/ League 24'''</span>]]
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| style="background:#aaa0db"" rowspan="3" align=center|[[/vg/_League_24_Friendlies|<span style="color:#17202a">'''Friendlies'''</span>]]
| align=center| March 28, 2025
| align=center| {{team away|aceg}}
| align=center| 3-0 W
| 72{{goal|27}}<br> のヮの {{goal|50}}<br>Bad Man {{goal|90}}
|-bgcolor='ffffcc'
| align=center| March 29, 2025
| align=center| {{team away|mjg}}
| align=center|3-3 D <br>
| のヮの {{goal|28}} <br>Bouncy Bouncy {{goal|41}}<br>72 {{goal|79}}
|-bgcolor='ccffcc'
| align=center| March 30, 2025
| align=center| {{team away|smbg}}
| align=center|3-1 W <br>
| Luna Say Baby {{goal|6}} <br>72 {{goal|47}}<br>}のヮの {{goal|87}
|}
{| class="wikitable" width=75%
|-
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" width=15%| Competition
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Stage
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Date
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Opponent
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Result
!style="background:#015997;color:#ffffff" | Scorers
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| style="background:#BE87C4" rowspan="6" align=center|[[File:Vgleague.png|100px|link=/vg/_League_23]]<br>[[/vg/_League_24|<span style="color:#FDFDFD">'''/vg/ League 24''' </span>]]
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| style="background:#BE87C4" rowspan="3" align=center|[[/vg/_League_24#Group_H|<span style="color:#FDFDFD">'''Group Stage'''<br>'''Group H'''</span>]]
| align=center|June 7, 2025
| align=center|{{team away|skg}}
| align=center|2-3 L
| Shrimple as That {{goal|5}} <br> Bouncy Bouncy {{goal|34}}
|-bgcolor="ccffcc"
| align=center|June 13, 2025
| align=center|{{team away|wtg}}
| align=center|3-2 W
| のヮの{{goal|28}} <br>72 {{goal|62||85}}
|-bgcolor="ffcccc"
| align=center|June 22, 2025
| align=center|{{team away|hbr}}
| align=center|2-3 L
| のヮの {{goal|32||72}}
|}
|}


Revision as of 01:33, 24 June 2025

/@/
If You Work, You Lose.
@ logo.png
/@/ - The iDOLM@STER General
Founded May 18, 2015
Manager P-Head Producer
Owner Bandai Namco
IRL manager JntP !!/l1chiNYw+R
TheBird !!imX5RWup/L6
Team colors
Extra team color
Chat color 62B7DD
20 Years of Research Blue
Ranking 6 (increase 41)
Highest rank 6 (/vg/ League 6, 17 and 23)
Lowest rank 52 (/vg/ League 15)
Top scorer Nonowa (64)
Top assister Nonowa (22)
Captain Nonowa
Website /@/ - The iDOLM@STER General
Nickname Producers
Historic performance
W D L TOTAL EFFICIENCY
31 12 27 70 44.29%
GF GA GD
141 127 +14
Biggest win
/@/ @ icon.png 7–1 Egg icon.png /egg/
9 December, 2022
Biggest defeat
/xcg/ Xcg icon.png 7–1 @ icon.png /@/
December 18, 2016
First match
/mgg/ Mgg icon.png 0–5 @ icon.png /@/
June 12, 2015
/vg/ League
Appearances 15 (First in /vg/ League 4)
Best result 6th, /vg/ League 6, 17 and 23
Team music
Anthem Voy@ger
Victory Anthem Do the IDOLl!!
Dangai zeppeki Chupacabra
Victory Anthem (Advancing from Group Stage) Campus Mode!!
Sp. Victory Anthem
 		Radio Happy
Goal horn Where the Idols at (first goal)
のヮの Bracehorn
Who Put the Bomp
72 Goalhorn Metome GauAu Shunkan
72 Bracehorn Alive Factor
72 Hat trick Yakusoku
Bouncy Bouncy Goalhorn Bouncy Girl
Bad Man Goal Horn Bad Man meme horn
Bad Man Brace Horn Hi-Fi☆Days
Cutest in the Universe horn Yellow Big Bang!
Cutest in the Universe horn Sekaiichi Kawaii Watashi
Kits


/@/, also known as The iDOLM@STER General, is a general based on the multimedia franchise of the same name. Beginning as an arcade idol simulation game focused on producing your idols as Producer-san, it has expanded into multiple console, gacha, puzzle, fighting, and rhythm games as well as concerts and anime. As every idol has a Producer, the denizens of /@/ often clash over which idoru is shit or prettiest. But in the end, they are all united by their love of idols during their lives.

Inspired by the smile that the Pride of Japan possesses, the Producers of /@/ will seek to bring their idols to the finals and achieve victory under the brightest lights on the stage!

Upcoming Matches

Date Time Opponent Competition

NanNan24 IT'S OVER.png
All matches will be streamed live on the VGL Cytube channel. /@/ Match archive.

Export

VGL 23 Tactics VGL 23 Aesthetics VGL23 Music

Team

Main article: /@/ Roster

Current Roster

VGL24 Roster

No. Position Player
21
  GK
Moogs.png Moogy
3
  CB
Nao.png Nao > Nao > Nao
2
  CB
Mikibot.png Mikibot
4
  RB
RollingRiceballs.png Rolling Riceballs
333
  LB
@yoinkypor.png Yoinky Sploinky
5
  DMF
MochiWAT.png mochiWHAT
13
  CMF
@badman.png Bad Man
100
  CMF
@Kotone.png Shrimple as That
10
  AMF
Bouncybouncy.png Bouncy Bouncy
72
  SS
72.png 72 Vice-captain
1
  CF
Nonowa.png のヮの Captain
No. Position Player
23
  GK
Hiroportrait.png A Bunch of Twigs
13
  CB
@Saki.png Saki Slop Drink
6
  CB
China-3.png China (The idol)
14
  CB
@WAO.png You will never be Japanese
9
  RB
Fuyu.png UGH
7
  RB
Dookie.png Dookie
149
  LB
Genkitrain.png Genki Train
12
  LB
@HARU.png Football idol on the team
346
  DMF
Takep.png TakeP
8
  DMF
FatbitchY.png FAT BITCH
17
  DMF
Temari.png Extra Crispy Tonkatsu
11
  DMF
@toru.png Mentally Chill


VGL 23 poll results
VGL 23 Tally

Former players and past rosters

For a full list of former players and old rosters follow this link:

Main article: /@/ Former Players and Rosters

Match History

Match archive

For the full match history since 2015:

Main article: /@/ Match History

Recent form

Competition Stage Date Opponent Result Scorers
Vgleague.png
/vg/ League 23
Group Stage
Group A 		November 29, 2024 Skg icon.png /skg/ 3-0 W Bad Man Goal 63', 86', 90+4'
December 8, 2024 Fgoalter icon.png /fgoalter/ 4-2 W Cutest in the Universe Goal 73'
のヮの Goal 81', 86', 89'
December 14, 2024 Gbfg icon.png /gbfg/ 2-1 W のヮの Goal 19' 72 Goal 49'
Round of 16 December 21, 2024 Vrg icon.png /vrg/ 4-3 W のヮの Goal 3', 45+2'
Bad ManGoal 48'
72 Goal 63'
Quarterfinals December 22, 2024 Utg icon.png /utg/ 0-1 L
Competition Edition Date Opponent Result Scorers
Vgleague.png
/vg/ League 24
Friendlies March 28, 2025 Aceg icon.png /aceg/ 3-0 W 72Goal 27'
のヮの Goal 50'
Bad Man Goal 90'
March 29, 2025 Mjg icon.png /mjg/ 3-3 D
のヮの Goal 28'
Bouncy Bouncy Goal 41'
72 Goal 79'
March 30, 2025 Smbg icon.png /smbg/ 3-1 W
Luna Say Baby Goal 6'
72 Goal 47'
}のヮの {{goal|87}
Competition Stage Date Opponent Result Scorers
Vgleague.png
/vg/ League 24
Group Stage
Group H 		June 7, 2025 Skg icon.png /skg/ 2-3 L Shrimple as That Goal 5'
Bouncy Bouncy Goal 34'
June 13, 2025 Wtg icon.png /wtg/ 3-2 W のヮのGoal 28'
72 Goal 62', 85'
June 22, 2025 Hbr icon.png /hbr/ 2-3 L のヮの Goal 32', 72'

Statistics

Does not include "Unofficial Matches"

Player Goals Assists
Nonowa.png のヮの 64 23
72.png 72 25 10
Dookie.png Dookie 15 11
Takep.png TakeP 11 13
Mikibot.png Mikibot 5 6
Fuyu.png UGH FUYU 4 8
@badman.png Bad Man 4 3
Fatbitch.png FAT BITCH 4 2
@usamin.png Usamin 3 2
Bouncybouncy.png Bouncy Bouncy 1 6
Jewhiro.png Jewhiro 1 2
@Kotone.pngCUTEST IN THE UNIVERSE 1 1
@nal.png Anal Idol 1 1
Kuroi.png Kuroi 1 0
Touma.png >16kg 1 0
Yukipo.png Yukipo 1 0
Sachikong.png Sachikong 0 2
Genkitrain.png Genki Train 0 1
Tachibana.png It's Tachibana 0 1
Nao.png Nao > Nao > Nao 0 1
@namco.png Scamco 0 1
@Mio.png MIO HONDA TIME 0 1
@Roco.png Headpats 0 1
@TOOT.png TOOT 0 1
Goalkeeper Saves
Jewhiro.png Jewhiro
38
Moogs.png Moogy
24
Pinya.png Pinya Korata
24
Kuroi.png Kuroi
15
@nal.png Anal Idol
8
Takep.png TakeP
6
Hiroportrait.png It hurts to live
4
@hagswarm.png Hagswarm
2

Awards

/vg/ Representatives

2015 Autumn Cup 2016 Autumn Cup 2017 Winter Cup 2017 Summer Cup 2017 Autumn Cup 2018 Summer Cup 2021 World Cup
Nonowa.png Nonowa.png Nonowa.png Nonowa.png Nonowa.png Nonowa.png Nonowa.png
  SS

のヮの

  DMF

のヮの

  DMF

のヮの

  LWF

のヮの

  CMF

のヮの

  DMF

のヮの
4chan Cup Summer Champion with /vg/

  DMF

のヮの

2022 Winter Cup 2022 Spring Cup 2022 Autumn Cup 2023
Autumn Cup 		2024
Spring Cup
72.png 72.png 72.png @badman.png Bouncybouncy.png
  RMF

72

  RB

72

  CB

72
4chan Cup Autumn Champion with /vg/

  CB

Bad Man

  CMF

Bouncy Bouncy

Stadium

Starlit Dome
Starlit dome.png

Rivalries

Aceg logo.png
/aceg/ - The Idolpoc@lyse		 Namco's evil schemes have put these fanbases in contact due to idoru influence since Ace Combat 6's special skins. The climax happened in the infamous and aptly named "Idolpoc@lypse", an early 2015 special event in Ace Combat Infinity with special plane drops featuring 765's idols, which caused unprecedented devastation from japanese players either not getting their waifus or western ones outraged by chinese cartoon girls on their planes. /aceg/ is also infatuated with Chihaya and the fact she already belongs to /@/'s roster makes this clash unavoidable.
Official games 0-0-0
(Total games 2-0-0)
Llsifg logo.png
/llsifg/ - The Idol Derby		 Pros vs Amateurs:

>They unironically do it for free

Official games 1-0-1,
(Total games 3-0-2)

Gallery

  • Believe in Chie...

  • It's coming home VGL 17 (it didn't)

  • Mikibot

  • CAM ON TABLEGIRL, SCOR SOM FACKIN GOALS

  • VGL 17 team photo

  • Team Miki

  • MegaDimoog

  • Mobabowl Game day hype card

  • Mobabowl Game day hype card

  • Mobabowl Game day hype card

  • Mobabowl Game day hype card

  • VGL22 Aftermath

  • WE ARE SO B@CK BROS

  • Moogy """goalkeeping"""

  • Moogy baseball >skills

Old Exports

[expand for old versions]

Mobabowl 22

VGL 17 Tactical Export: Singing with a smile Aesthetics Export: Brand new Idol clothes Audio Export: MUSIC♪ VGL 17 Friendlies Aesthetics
VGL 17 Friendlies Tactics
Mobabowl instructions: Mobabowl Sliders/pre-game instructions Jan 9
Mobabowl export: Mobabowl TED talk
/vg/ League 15 export: Ganbarimasu
/vg/ League 15 Music export: utam@s /vg/ League XII Aesthetics export Moba Bowl 2019: Export
Moba Bowl Pastabin Loser's Bracket: Pastebin

/vg/ League X Export
/vg/ League X Aesthetics with bugs!

/vg/ League 9 Export
/vg/ League 9 Aesthetics

/vg/ League 8 Export
/vg/ League 8 [Aesthetics]

/vg/ League 7 Export
/vg/ League 7 Aesthetics

/vg/ League 6 Export
/vg/ League 6 Aesthetics

/vg/ League 5 Export
/vg/ League 5 Aesthetics

/vg/ League 4 Export
/vg/ League 4 Aesthetics
VGL 17 Friendles Music
VGL12 Music Export
VGLX Music Export
VGL9 Music Export
VGL8 Music Export
VGL7 Music Export
VGL6 Music Export
VGL5 Music Export
VGL4 Music Export

Contact

You can contact us on the VGL >discord server
Or email: idolmasterfootball@gmail.com

v • d • e
/vg/ League
Current Teams
/@/ • /2hug/ • /aceg/ • /akg/ • /alg/ • /bag/ • /dbg/ • /ddg/ • /domg/ • /drg/ • /egg/ • /esg/ • /fgoalter/ • /fgog/ • /gbfg/ • /gbpen/ • /gfg/ • /ggg/ • /gig/ • /hanny/ • /hbr/ • /hdg/ • /hgg2d/ • /hsrg/ • /ink/ • /kfg/ • /ksg/ • /lcg/ • /llsifg/ • /mggg/ • /mjg/ • /mmcg/ • /nepgen/ • /nikg/ • /omg/ • /pcrg/ • /pg/ • /pmmm/ • /psg/ • /skg/ • /smbg/ • /smtg/ • /snowg/ • /tf2g/ • /uma/ • /utg/ • /vn/ • /vrg/ • /wowg/ • /wtg/ • /xivg/ • /zzz/
Legacy Teams
/3dsg/ • /5N@F/ • /aa2g/ • /acg/ • /agdg/ • /aog/ • /assg/ • /bbg/ • /bdog/ • /bfg/ • /bsg/ • /cbg/ • /ccg/ • /csgog/ • /civ4xg/ • /d2g/ • /d3g/ • /ddlc/ • /dfg/ • /digi/ • /dlg/ • /dng/ • /drag/ • /dsg/ • /eftg/ • /feg/ • /ffg/ • /fg/ • /fgg/ • /fhg/ • /forza/ • /gerg/ • /gsg/ • /hpgg/ • /hsg/ • /htg/ • /igg/ • /indie/ • /kspg/ • /lisg/ • /lolg/ • /mbg/ • /mcg/ • /meg/ • /mgg/ • /mhg/ • /mk8g/ • /mmg/ • /nintyg/ • /npg/ • /osg/ • /pdg/ • /r6g/ • /revue/ • /rlg/ • /rsg/ • /scv/ • /sgg/ • /sog/ • /srg/ • /ss13g/ • /ssbg/ • /sthg/ • /svg/ • /tekgen/ • /tesg/ • /tfg/ • /tnm/ • /trg/ • /ttgg/ • /twg/ • /vgt/ • /vitagen/ • /wotg/ • /xcg/ • /xgg/ • /yyy/ • /きらら/
Tournaments
Qualifiers
Friendlies
Invitationals
Other
Retrieved from "https://implyingrigged.info/w/index.php?title=/@/&oldid=283624"